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The Very Secret Diary of peasant007
Zane is a Mary-Sue, er, Marty-Stu 
22nd-Dec-2009 04:06 am


Oh dear.  I took the Universal Mary-Sue Litmus Test and Zane scored a 91.  And I thought I was doing so well.  On the other hand, a lot of the questions asking about "Powers that others don't have" I still checked "yes" to, as him being the Grim Reaper is unique to my Sims world, but there really is only one Death (Thaddeus doesn't count).  So yes, it makes him unique, but someone has to be the Grim Reaper...

So, under the cut are the answers I checked "yes" to.  Some of it is very spoiler-y as I know where the story is going with him.  I won't go into details on those questions.  I suppose this is somewhat a Meta on him, though not the elaborate one with pictures that I'm making.



Part 1 - All Characters:


1.  Is your character's name (i) Chosen specifically because you thought it had a meaning appropriate for your character?

Yes.  I have a bad habit of recycling names.  Zane is the name from "On a Pale Horse" by Piers Anthony, and he was the character who held the office of Death.  Every male child I have ever had born in my game who was a Reaper Child by InSim was given this name, and this Zane was no exception.  Of course, I originally had no intention of having my Zane become the Grim Reaper, it just became an added bonus.  Extra points for the fact that my Zane and OaPH Zane were pale with black hair!

5.  Is your character described, illustrated, and/or shown as exceptionally beautiful, cute, or handsome?  (a) Do you find your character attractive enough to date him/her?

Zane is cute, I admit.  Face One and Face Two are the exceptionally good looking templates.  If he were real and I were single I would totally date him.  He's physically fit, no body hair, and he's always smiling.  The downside is that he doesn't have much of a sense of humor and he doesn't get sarcasm, so I would probably go out with him once or twice and then "just be friends" with him; of which I am sad to say that he would be perfectly fine with.

6.  Do other characters frequently tell your character how sexy or beautiful he/she is?  Does your character modestly deny it every time or refuses to believe that he/she is attractive?

I wouldn't say that everyone tells him all the time that he's adorable, but when his looks come up, it's mentioned.  Granted, it's been mentioned most recently in the BC, which is all in his head, but to be fair to me, I was really stretching for conversation based off of their speech bubbles.  All they really wanted to talk about was books, the environment, and art.  I'm just thankful that the oil and statue icons popped up and I could take it from there.

And, using the BC as an example again, Zane was embarrassed by the conversation, even though it was in his own mind.  If that doesn't say that he refuses to believe that he's attractive, I don't know what does.

11.  Does your character's description contain anything to the effect of "He/she looks just like [other character/celebrity] except..."

Yes.  He looks just like Spider Jerusalem, except he's S1, where SJ is S2.  He looks just like Mary, except she's a girl.  He looks just like Eustace and Evangeline Whedonberry...etc.  They are all Reaper Clones, what do you expect?

17.  Does your character have a particularly piercing (EG, "can stare straight into your soul"), haunting, captivating, or dazzling gaze?

I'm gonna say "yes" to this.  He's the freakin' Grim Reaper and I imagine that he kinda keeps a lot of the creepiness out of his regular demeanor.  But, I can kinda see this being an issue if he's feeling a particularly strong emotion.  I haven't gone into great detail about this, but whenever he enters the room, his strong emotions eminate from him.  When he was collecting Hunter and Ansley, the feeling of sadness filled the room.  Anger and depression when he came in the nick of time to stop Lillian from killing Mary.  Hurt and sadness when Sebastian accused him of being someone nobody could trust because he's Lillian's child.  In other words, if you looked into Zane's eyes at those moments, "haunting" would probably be a word to describe what they looked like.

20.  Is your character impervious to any of the normal limitations and/or weaknesses of his/her species?

Eeehh...I said yes in that Zane was originally human and I suppose he technically still is, just an animated Dead one.  Because of that, he's immortal and he doesn't suffer from sickness or even have to take care of his basic needs when he's on the Dead Realm.  On the Mortal Realm, he would get tired and hungry, though not sick, if he were wearing his street clothes.  He doesn't when he's dressed in his Reaper Robes.

21.  Is your character partially or completely some type of metaphysical/spirit-type being?

Yes.  He's the Grim Reaper.  No need for explanation there.

24.  Does your character become a genetically, scientifically, cybernetically, or magically altered/enhanced being, possibly with new powers?

Yes.  He became the Grim Reaper through magic.

49.  Ah, the sound of music!  Does your character...(b) Play a musical instrument very well?

Yes.  I couldn't pry him away from the violin when he was growing up.  It never came up in the story, and I don't know if it ever will, but the kid was a shut-in who pretty much just skilled the entire time.  I imagine that he would be rather musically inclined because of that.

50.  Does your character use magic in a typically non-magical universe?

I don't really deal with the supernatural much in my story.  Lillian was a witch and there was a coven, but the other witches were very minor characters and really only shown in passing as I needed a reason to strip Lillian of her powers; that green aura was lagging my computer way too much.  Thaddeus is a lycanthrope, Remington is a Zombie, and I know I have a character vampire running around for future use...but none of them are the norm.  So, I would say that my universe is rather non-magical as I deal more with personal and interpersonal relations.  *sigh*  But, Zane is the Grim Reaper, and his soul collecting would be considered magical.

53.  Does your character have a telepathic/empathic connection or the ability to communicate with any kind of animal?  (a) Anything such as horses, wolves, big cats, or mythical creatures?  - Bonded creatures do not count, so long as this is within a universe where this is perfectly normal and it is your character's one and only bonded creature.

Mortis  Binky  Palus, his horse;  "Death rides a pale horse" and all that.  He can communicate with Palus empathically.  Now, here it got a little tricky for me.  See, Palus is bonded to Zane, and it's his only bonded animal companion; Ruth and Jezebel are also bonded to him as his companions; though they were never mortal, they are, at least in Sim terms, still human.  But, regardless, it's not "perfectly normal" in my universe.  Heck, Thaddeus, the lesser Reaper, doesn't have any sort of bonded companions.

56.  Does your character posess power that can take out entire cities/legions of soldiers/general all-around-evil?

...

He's the Grim Reaper.  He can walk up to someone and take their soul out of their body if he really felt like it; he just doesn't and the very thought horrifies him.  It's not typical for Grim Reapers to do so, but they can do it if the situation arises.

58.  Does your character have any other relatively unique special powers/abilities that come in handy?

Again I'll mention the fact that other people can feel strong emotions eminating from Zane if he doesn't keep it in check.  I don't know if it applies here or if it "comes in handy", but when I unchecked the box, Zane's score dropped from 91 to 90, so it doesn't make that huge of a difference; especially since, according to the score chart, anything over 50 points is considered a Mary-Sue that needs to be "killed dead."

65.  Does your character alone have a weapon that...(b) Was given by some kind of spirit/magical being?  (d)  Is magical?

Grim has a scythe and it's part of Zane's Robes of Office.  It was given to him by the Offices of Reaper, Reaper, Reaper, & Reaper and because it's part of his Outfit that makes him impervious to harm and need decay on the Mortal Realm I would consider that magical.

71.  Is your character nobility, closely related to a noble, or at least a rough equivalent? (President, governor, etc.)


We'll consider Legacy Families to be the equivalent of nobility in the Sims world, so the answer would be a absolute "yes" to this.

74.  Is your character some kind of 'chosen one' and/or a major part of a prophecy?


Yes.*

75.  Does your character consider his/her talents, special abilities, or good looks to be a curse?

Yes.  He hates the fact that he's so good looking and he curses it night and day. 

LOL. 

Okay, seriosuly, yeah, he despises the fact that he's the Grim Reaper and that he collects souls for a living.  It doesn't matter if they are considered "special abilities" or not; he just wanted to have a normal life with two three ten kids, a wife, and a nice house with a white picket fence.  He does look at his entire situation as a curse.

79.  What about any of these?  (a) Born/raised in extreme poverty?


Yes.  The house in London Bridge was a condemed building on the outskirts of town (how London Bridge managed that with five whole buildings in town, we'll never know) and the side-by-side he was relocated to in Pleasantview was in the "bad part of town" next to the nuclear power plant, the dump, the canning factory, and the fish packing plant.  Where he lived was just slightly above living in a Budget Slum Unit.

(e)  An illegitimate child?

Yep yep.  Lillian had him by herself; that bastard Grim didn't even bother with Christmas presents or Birthday cards let alone child support.

(f)  The parent of an illegitimate child?

Yes.*

(g)  Abused?

Let me introduce to the court Exhibit A:  Lillian

80.  Has your character otherwise lost...(b) A lover?  (c)  A close friend?

Yes.*

82.  If your character has a torment-ridden, pain-filled past, do you believe it excuses his/her actions?

In a sense, yes.  He's a complete doormat because of how he was raised.  His actions are rather benign, though, and they are done with good intentions.  So, his "actions" are forgiven.  "Actions" being that he doesn't really stand up for himself.

84.  Does your character angst about something that he/she did in the past?  (a)  Death of a main character's family?  (b)  Death of his/her own family?

For the sake of this quiz, A and B are one in the same.  Even if they weren't, while he isn't the direct cause of their deaths, he's still the one who comes to get them.  As it has been stated on multiple occasions, Zane hates the fact that he's the one who collects the souls of his family members, and so he broods about that...among other things.

87.  Does a major villain have a personal fixation/obsession with your character?

Though Josh started it with, "Rue the day," Lillian is reinventing the idea.  Oh yeah, she's pissed that Zane removed her from the equation...for the moment.  When she comes back, her focus won't be on taking over the legacy, as she can't anymore.  BUT, there are other things that she can do that will make Zane miserable.  After all, her specialty is crushing his spirits when they are at their highest.

Part 2 - Fictional Characters:

3.  Is your character well-liked by nearly everyone he/she meets?


Absolutely.  Who wouldn't like a guy who smiles nicely, seems interested in everything that you're saying, admires you at every turn, and would rather hear more about you than talk much about himself?  He is truly a nice guy.  This is, of course, not getting into the fact that most of Generation Four (with the sole exception of a certain Simself's daughter) rolled the Family Aspiration, so by default they are going to like him.

6.  Does anyone who doesn't like or respect your character by the end of the story end up beaten up, humiliated, and/or dead?

Yes.*

7.  Does your character have a job or skill that is discouraged, forbidden, or unusual among his/her gender, race, or social status?

Being a Grim Reaper is unusual if you consider the Sims as a race of people.  This was another one that I hemmed and hawed over, but unchecking it dropped the score from 91 to 89, so he's still waaaayyyy over the 50+ where he should be "killed dead" because he's a Mary-Sue.

8.  Does your character save the day way more often than other main characters?  (c)  Magically or mystically?

Nobody has "saved the day" other than Zane, who in the same day managed to save Mary from Lillian as well as save Tina from dying.  Both of these actions were done magically when he whisked them away.

(d)  Does your character die in the process? (Any nasty irreversable thing, like getting sent to an inescapable dimension count, too.)

Yes.*

Part 5 - De-Suifiers:

Do you ever poke fun at your character's faults/weaknesses and/or use them as plot devices?

All the time.  In case you haven't seen the Macro I made in response to DocNerd on Zane's BC thread, here you go:





His being so nice is really the only defining character trait Zane has.  All of his other stats are so middle of the road (5/5/5/3/9 adjusted because of Lillian's encouragement down on his Playfulness) so I really play up the Nice points.  In fact, the way I write him, he should be 10 Nice.  I laughed at SC when Zane came home with Lionel Pleasant and I quoted this to myself for the rest of the day:

"...Gullible Sims.  Sims with low standards."

"Zane:  Sure I'll be your friend!"

He's a Woobie; I know it and he knows it.  He seems to like it, whereas I really don't, but I'm kinda stuck with writing him that way.  Oh, he'll change...a little, but not that much.  His Niceness is my main plot device for him.

2.  Has your character ever been honestly selfish, petty, lazy, shallow, or pointlessly cruel?

Yes.*

13.  Does your character ever admit to being wrong, even if he/she doesn't really mean it?

Kind of.  He apologized to Cassandra in the BC recently for yelling at her.  His apology was sincere, all of his apologies to all the girls were, but he didn't really know what he was apologizing for.  In essence, if you don't know what you're apologizing for, you really don't mean it, because saying "I'm sorry" means you won't do it again (ideally).  he doesn't know "what he's doing" in that instance, but his admissions of wrong doings are still rather hollow.

So, the final score was 91.  Zane is a Marty-Stu.  *sigh*  Well, I hope he's still tolerable to read even with this damning information.  I also hope you liked reading this tiny bit of insight on Zane :)

*Denotes answers to things that haven't happened yet in the story, hence only the answer, no details.

Comments 
22nd-Dec-2009 01:13 pm (UTC)
I honestly don't think this is a very accurate test. Many of the issues you're describing come from the game, the legacy genre itself, or have to be tweaked a lot. I'd include in the appearance list there lots of CC that make the character unbelievably beautiful. Otherwise, a Simmer can't take too much credit for a born-in-game character, unless they're bred for the pretty or the ugly.

I think some of Zane's "specialness" does come from being a Reaper Child, the possibility of which is always in the game, and which is unusual, but not unheard of. Once you have it, you might as well use it, right? And Reaper Children tend to be pretty.

Cecil comes out fairly low on the test, but I think that's artificially low. He's not a dateable character, and characters within my story never talk about him this way, but he is unquestionably handsome. Royalty/nobility?--well, in a way, marrying in Legacy Sims, especially Gaius, did that to all my Sims, but Cecil seems to be the only one who cares. Giving birth to his own daughter is probably the most magical thing he's ever done (that, and threatening to take Death to court.) So--do I get points off because I'm a Mac owner and can't install AL?

Still--iron self control isn't on that list, and it should be. Utter imperviousness to sex and romance isn't, but should be.

Anyway--I think Zane falls into a normal range for a Sim character, some of which tend to get thrown in to avoid the mind-numbing round of born-married-died.

More important than "is the character a Mary Sue?" is "what are you doing with that character?" Bella Swan in *Twilight* is a chart-blowing Sue, but it's bothersome because a Sue is all she is. Whereas Zane would really like a boring, normal life and can't have one.
22nd-Dec-2009 07:42 pm (UTC)
That is very true and I realize that a lot of allowances need to be made for the specific Legacy type of story. And, you are absolutely correct about the CC; it can make a "meh" looking Sim into something prettier. Take Eden for example: she's all Goopy all the time, but the proper hairstyle and makeup (and good camera angles) really disguises that fact.

I ran Eden through that test and she scored a 41, but she's also going to be a celebrity in the Hollywood sense of the word, so a lot of the "looks" questions were checked.

Lillian, funny enough, scored a 36. She uses magic, but much like Cecil, she's not a dateable character, so her looks don't come into play. She also isn't sorry for anything that she's done.

With most of my characters, I check "yes" to "do you want to look like them?" Who wouldn't? Sims (unless an Uglacy Sim) are all perfect looking, learn quickly, have nice clothes and makeup due to CC, and it only takes them a couple of hours to go from "fat" to "skinny."

Also, the fact that Zane is the Grim Reaper, and the only one of his kind (not counting Thaddeus, who is a lesser one) made it so he scored really high. I'm sure if I took out all of the magical questions and said that they were normal, he would score much lower. This was all done tongue in cheek; I'm not all that upset that Zane scored so high because as you pointed out, he's not a Sue all of the time and he does just want a regular life.
22nd-Dec-2009 06:19 pm (UTC)
I agree with a lot of what Prof said. I don't think you need to worry about Zane. Also, I've seen a lot of 'updated' versions of that test and people complain about all of them for various reasons. Sims legacies for a large part can come off very soap opera-y and that heads towards the realm of Mary Sue/Stu-dom. So yeah, I still adore Zane (and LOVE that Macro!) so don't worry :)
22nd-Dec-2009 08:00 pm (UTC)
LOL, I love the fact that Legacies are very soap opera-y. When I try to explain to Keith (or another one of my friends who reads my stuff but doesn't play the game) some of the basic facts, or get into "so-and-so is related to so-and-so because so-and-so, in another dimension is so-and-so's father/mother/grandfather/uncle/etc." I get some really blank looks.

Case and point: Cecil and Lytton Goodytwoshoes are related to Rhys and Vaughn Fitzhugh because Spencer Fitzhugh had Ruby Goodytwoshoes in SC, and is also the father of Rhys. That would make Rhys Cecil and Lytton's uncle and Vaughn their first cousin. That is actually an important fact for my own legacy and those characters are flagged as relatives. I do not want to make any inbreeding mistakes, not that there's anything wrong with that *coughCecilandElissacough*

Another soap opera explanation was needed when my friend suggested that Cecil (?!) be the cause of an apocalypse. "Why?" Was my question.

"Because, well, he does all of those scientific experiments."

"?! No he doesn't." (my friend has not read SC)

"Well, then, how did he have his daughter by himself?"

"Oh! Well, you see, Mortimer Goodytwoshoes is the family's mad scientist and..." (blah blah blah, the entire explanation, also getting into the fact that Cecil is a borrowed character, so thus huge things like an apocalypse should be done by my own character, not a borrowed one, especially when such huge things are out of character for said borrowed sim).

This was met with silence.

"*sigh* It's like hearing about a soap opera, isn't it?"

"Yeah. Kinda. Just a bit."

As for Zane, I mentioned to PB above that I took the test in a rather tongue in cheek manner, realizing that because he is the one and only of his kind, he would automatically score high. It was still a shock though; I didn't think he would score that high. Maybe I should retake the test and consider the Grim Reaper aspect of his character as normal and see how he scores.

But, it's a good thing that people still like my little Marty "Woobie" Stu :)
25th-Dec-2009 05:57 am (UTC)
Oh man, somehow it has never even occurred to me that Vaughn is related to Cecil and Lytton. Somehow I always forget that they're descended from Spencer, since when I think of their ancestors my brain tends to stop at Gaius since his various issues had such an impact on them both.
22nd-Dec-2009 08:31 pm (UTC)
I think I took this test for a couple of my prose characters a couple years ago. It was lulzy.

Zane's so not a Marty Stu. Characters can have ALL of these characteristics and still be interesting and not cliched. So you don't have to kill Zane ded. *sage nods* I still enjoyed reading it all, though. It was kind of like a meta in itself, reading why you chose those answers.

Edited at 2009-12-22 08:31 pm (UTC)
22nd-Dec-2009 09:31 pm (UTC)
Believe it or not, I actually *remember* when you took that test! I was too lazy to go hunting for the exact entry, but I do remember it.

There's a lot of wiggle room here. Rhys, for example--he had a hard childhood *to him*, and it doesn't matter in some ways that a lot of other people think he's whining about it.

Maybe I'll run a few characters through the Mary Sueometer--I did have a few thoughts but don't want to hijack.
22nd-Dec-2009 10:12 pm (UTC)
Hijack all you want because I'd be curious to see what you come up with :)
22nd-Dec-2009 10:20 pm (UTC)
I kinda figured it would be looked at as a Meta. Like i said, I have a real pretty one with pictures and everything in the works.

And I suppose I can't really kill Zane dead when he's already dead, now can I? I will admit, the test is awfully lulzy :)
23rd-Dec-2009 02:10 am (UTC) - What's this?
Oh look I haz LJ nao. :D

Sure, if you're going to define a Marty-Stu as an incredible character, then I guess Zane [i]is[/i] one, given that he's a Reaper Child. But Marty-Stus and Mary-Sues exist, I think, because they are literary manifestations (and projections) of a lesser writer's desires and ideals. Hence, the bonafide Stus and Sues tend to be spotlight hoggers. Zane, though, is a character all to himself, and not just some author-turned-character-chasing-after-some-smexy-girl-or-the-other-way-around. He's got depth. And he makes sense in the storyline.

So that test result is a liiiiiieeeeee. ;p
23rd-Dec-2009 07:09 am (UTC) - Re: What's this?
Hence, the bonafide Stus and Sues tend to be spotlight hoggers.

Oh dear, I really ought to finish his BC, lol.

He is an incredible character, being that he's the Grim Reaper. Of course, I can and will justify his "Marty-Stu-ness" because of that. As I said, I'm not terribly worried about his status. Look at it this way, he's a character that is/will be present for 6 generations, so he has to have some sort of storyline and character development...or he gets faded into the backgound (like Aylee).

I just retook the quiz and stripped out everything having to do with his Reaper status and he came out as 42 (the meaning of life!). Much better. Again, I'm not terribly upset, just surprised. Zane came a long way from being Lillian's evil minion (his original concept I wrote before he was born. Those cursed 9 Nice points threw me though a loop), and he also came a long way from being Mary re-born (the next concept I had for him after I saw he had 9 Nice Points).

Bah, I shouldn't dwell, but I was soooo smug until I saw his score. I mean, A LOT of numbers and sub-categories were skipped! Meh, he's not going to be adjusted in any way, and the stuff I have planned for him will still go through. As long as people still like reading about him (and more importantly, I like writing about him) nothing will change :)
23rd-Dec-2009 06:35 am (UTC)
I agree that Zane can't really be considered a Mary Sue, for a couple of reasons.
1) Generally a Mary Sue is a created character that manifests all the the creators dreams, desires and wishes for themselves. I seriously think that Bella Goth is the Mary Sue of some random persone Sims creative team. With Zane, I highly doubt that he's the manifestion of your desires and such. Not to mention, you didn't exactly create him to be what he is. Zane's character is the evolution of an ingame born sim.
2) He's a reaper child in a world where men are pregnated by aliens and families can bring bigfoot home from vacation. It's really borderline just how spectacular Zane really is. In the real world, yeah, he's something from a certain Harry Potter slash fic genre. Or 'Super Natural' But in the sims, he's actually blase.

I just don't think he fits the Mary Sue bit because, I don't feel he's been contrived to win over audiences or to feed your own ego. Zane is a product of a very unique game and you're simply working with the elements of his character to make the best of him. So I don't think the test is very accurate here.
23rd-Dec-2009 06:40 am (UTC)
Oh yeah, I was wondering (and please don't tell anyone that I'm an ignoramous for not knowing this) but what is a meta?
23rd-Dec-2009 06:49 am (UTC)
A meta, I guess, is just a fancy-schmancy way of saying, "I'm gonna talk about a character; it might be long-winded." In other words, giving insight on a character and describing why the character acts the way he does.

I'm sure there's more to the concept, but that's the gist of it :)
23rd-Dec-2009 07:19 am (UTC)
Bella Goth? Really? Eh, I suppose. And no, Zane is not a manifestation of my desires. Well...unless I'm stuck in really bad traffic, then, possibly...

Though, he is still kinda my creation. I didn't let him stay dead, and I didn't write him as Mary reborn pretty much because between the time I thought of the concept, and the time it was being executed...Zane developed a fanbase. I realized it wouldn't be all that satisfying to anyone really if I had carried through with it.

So, a few adjustments later, (namely resurrecting him and eliminating a whole bunch of pictures of Mary shot with the idea that he was a boy in a girl's body: aware of who he was. Essentially, I eliminated pictures of Tina attending the "kids day gathering" I had when they were younger; Tina was actually there) and his new story was created. In fact, I'm still thinking things through because now he'll be around until the very end, instead of dying of old age as the 4th generation heir/ess.

So, in essence, he was contrived to win over the audience; or at the very least, maintain his fanbase. I really am ashamed of that, but it still won't change anything I have planned for him. What's done is done :)
23rd-Dec-2009 08:53 am (UTC)
I say Bella Goth because I feel she was written just to get attention. Maybe not in the beginning when she was created for the Sims 1, but when the sequel came around... I mean they turn her into a legend and just keep dragging it on. She couldn't just disappear, but there are sightings and numerous rumors and a statue of her erected... I mean, she was clearly written to cause hype and that annoys me. I mean, what's the big deal? She was never a very cool character to begin with. IMO

As for Zane, well when you put it that way, I guess he is a Mary Sue and you're a total sell out ;)
27th-Dec-2009 10:27 pm (UTC)
Zane is a total woobie. He exists to suffer. That's what woobies do.

Mary Sues are not crippled by self-doubt, except as a footnote upon their introduction, which they then immediately overcome en route to solving every problem and displaying more smarts, verve, and wit than the original characters. Mary Sues and Woobies are mutually exclusive.

Oh, and a Mary Sue written by a female author is a Mary Sue regardless of character gender, because they personify the author. ;)
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